Conan the Barbarian

[Xaltotun]

1 hour ago, Arthadan said:

 

Thing is it's nearly impossible to kill Thorgrim and Rexor. To begin with they are in the last positions of the River, so they arrive late to the fight (just like in the movie) and heroes are a bit beaten up by then. Also, keep in mind Thulsa Doom will never appear before turn 6 so heroes will have a good chance of protecting/recovering the Princess even after killing the "sacrified" OL character.

 

Besides, if we follow your suggestion,  heroes will  try not to kill both, Thorgrim and Rexor, so Thulsa Doom will never appear and OL's victory conditions change for the worse.

 

Anyway, further playtesting will give us the answer. 

 

 

I kind of like a final duel between Conan and Thulsa Doom with the broken sword, just like the movie. @Xaltotun what do you think?

 

 

Thanks! 

I will make my tests next week. Then I'll tell you.

[Florentin]

The new map with the update you required @Arthadan.

 

Note: Update from 19/11/17 - 10:52 stone C was darkened!

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Florentin

[Florentin]

1 hour ago, Arthadan said:

I kind of like a final duel between Conan and Thulsa Doom with the broken sword, just like the movie. @Xaltotun what do you think?

That Sword be broken or not at the end of the BOTM scenario is not very important for me!

It was only for fun!

But the right question is different! Could we obtain a scenario end that is not exactly the movie one ?

i.e.: Valeria wasn't killed at the end of the "caves rescue" mission !

And if so, how to adapt the scenarii in campaign mode to be consistent with the end of previous scenario.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Florentin

[Florentin]

Hi all, do you think it could be interesting to write a battle report as lessons learn of the next playtests we are going to do in the next weeks ?

As an example, by game phases, it could be recorded:

• movements of heroes and OL troopers
• actions results
• energy managements
• problems that would occur (to build, in the future, a FAQ or a tactical book and to justify apparition )

As an option could be recorded:

• time between actions
• some pictures could be great (photo or drawings as the picture you already used) to set the heroes at the beginning of the game

Maybe we should establish the template of a document to fil during our next playtest to share & identify:

• strength & weaknesses of the rules,
• map & tiles
• and of course best fun actions.

What are you thinking about this ?

 

See the new map with indications. Easier for exchanges.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Florentin

[Florentin]

Stone D: passage between 46 and 43 seems useless !

In fact, there is already a border between the both areas.

[Florentin]

12 hours ago, Arthadan said:

 

I think that one doesn't need to be changed. There are gaps wide enough to be understable a character on foot can move from 61<-->62 <-->14 and 61<-->63<-->22.

I suggest changing just the previous ones (A to E).

I saw this post after I worked on the new map!

I draw the red movements arrows to show the interest of the stone F.

So, move could be realized between:

• 61 to 14 while avoiding areas  62 & 63.
• 62 to 63 while avoiding 61.

Thus, I think it would be great to keep the stone F as a lower black stone that offers capability to change area for on foot characters.

 

Note: for me 63 to 22 is forbidden consequence of the "cheval de frise". 

Or, we can imagine that the F black stone is the only way to go from 61 & 62 & 63 to 22 by jumping from it in area 22 ? It could be epic to see Conan to do a such action to protect Yasmina !? 

But, if so it should be forbidden to go back from area 22 in the three others areas or that means that on foot characters should climb on the "cheval de frise" to reach the F black stone top...But quite dangerous and that would need an additional gem so: 2 gems to use this way...

 

What are you thinking about this ?

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Florentin

[Arthadan]

4 hours ago, Florentin said:

Stone D: passage between 46 and 43 seems useless !

In fact, there is already a border between the both areas.

 

There is a border but it's so narrow no miniature base can pass through it. I think we should keep it.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Arthadan

[Vincent255]

11 hours ago, Florentin said:

That Sword be broken or not at the end of the BOTM scenario is not very important for me!

It was only for fun!

But the right question is different! Could we obtain a scenario end that is not exactly the movie one ?

i.e.: Valeria wasn't killed at the end of the "caves rescue" mission !

And if so, how to adapt the scenarii in campaign mode to be consistent with the end of previous scenario.

 

Well I know that in the Novelisation, the Sword Rexor Wielded (the one that was made by Conan's Father) did remain intact, and Conan reclaimed it upon killing him.  

 

For Valeria, I think what you're describing is indicative of Gameplay/Story Segregation.  So I'm not all that sure how it could be adapted into the Game.  

[Arthadan]

4 hours ago, Florentin said:

I saw this post after I worked on the new map!

I draw the red movements arrows to show the interest of the stone F.

So, move could be realized between:

• 61 to 14 while avoiding areas  62 & 63.
• 62 to 63 while avoiding 61.

Thus, I think it would be great to keep the stone F as a lower black stone that offers capability to change area for on foot characters.

 

Note: for me 63 to 22 is forbidden consequence of the "cheval de frise". 

Or, we can imagine that the F black stone is the only way to go from 61 & 62 & 63 to 22 by jumping from it in area 22 ? It could be epic to see Conan to do a such action to protect Yasmina !? 

But, if so it should be forbidden to go back from area 22 in the three others areas or that means that on foot characters should climb on the "cheval de frise" to reach the F black stone top...But quite dangerous and that would need an additional gem so: 2 gems to use this way...

 

What are you thinking about this ?

 

Thing is black stones represent low stones in narrow spaces. That's the reason why only miniatures on foot can move through them.

 

But in the case of stone F is between two open spaces (62 and 63), so there is plenty of room for a horse to jump over it.

 

So, should we complicate things a bit and make F usable by mounted and on foot miniatures or keep it easier and leave F as a normal stone so all black stones are only for miniatures on foot?

[Florentin]

5 hours ago, Arthadan said:

 

there is a border but it's so narrow no miniature base can pass through it. I think we should kepp it.

Thank you !

 

Your response rises an other question.

Some areas are connected but only by narrow paths!

So If I understand your point of view, even if the areas are nearby, a miniature can not reach the other one...

 

I'm afraid that may be a great cause of misunderstanding between players, don't you think ?

In fact, if areas are nearby with a clear white borderline (even a dot) , normally a character may go in the other areas...maybe it is going to slide between the stones, i.e: he is going to threw his sword and his shield and sneak between two stones before to pick up its weapons? That could be possible...but maybe an extra gem would be necessary !

The map below indicates all the paths that exist between areas...

 

for a better definition use:

Better definition here: Map_BOTM_191117_Paths_and_BlackStones.bmp

What are you thinking of this ?

 

Moreover, some areas can not be reach by riders because they have no space to enter in (for example areas between Monoliths).

Are you agree with this ? i.e.: area 75.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Florentin

[Xaltotun]

6 hours ago, Florentin said:

for me 63 to 22 is forbidden consequence of the "cheval de frise"

 

I agree with this

[Florentin]

1 hour ago, Arthadan said:

Thing is black stones represent low stones in narrow spaces. That's the reason why only miniatures on foot can move through them.

 

But in the case of stone F is between two open spaces (62 and 63), so there is plenty of room for a horse to jump over it.

 

So, should we complicate things a bit and make F usable by mounted and on foot miniatures or keep it easier and leave F as a normal stone so all black stones are only for miniatures on foot?

At present, @Arthadan I'm not certain to well understand the purpose of the low black stones you talk about.

My understanding of these stones was that they could be used to allow movement for on foot miniatures while blocking mounted miniatures. For on foot miniatures, an extra gem cost is necessary to climb on the low black stones and go in the nearby area.

 

So for me stone F could not be used by mounted miniatures.

Why are you talking about usage by mounted miniatures for stone F ?

[Xaltotun]

1 minute ago, Florentin said:

So for me stone F could not be used by mounted miniatures.

Why are you talking about usage by mounted miniatures for stone F ?

 

I think I'm having problems in understanding too. sorry

[Florentin]

3 minutes ago, Xaltotun said:

 

I agree with this

Ok! So I consider in this scenario version that access from 62 to 22 is forbiden consequence of the "cheval de frise" presence.

[Florentin]

4 hours ago, Vincent255 said:

 

Well I know that in the Novelisation, the Sword Rexor Wielded (the one that was made by Conan's Father) did remain intact, and Conan reclaimed it upon killing him.  

 

For Valeria, I think what you're describing is indicative of Gameplay/Story Segregation.  So I'm not all that sure how it could be adapted into the Game.  

I remember to have talk about this on the french forum, there are ages (~April 17th 2017).

This is in french...do not know if every one can understand what was written (see below PS) so I summarize the conclusion:

<<

Heroes that should not die  escape  out of the map to avoid to be killed when their hit points are under 0.

People that should die are killed at the end of the scenario...the OL read a small text that will tell the story who is going to die & how.

>>

 

However, this solution is not the one I would like now. In fact, if Valeria was not killed, she would had certainly participated to the Battle of the mounds...

If Rexor and Thorgrim had escaped the battlefield in the BOTM maybe the last fight against Thulsa Doom would not have been as easy as it was.

So I think it would be great to try to find a game system that could allow to live new "Conan the barbarian adventures".

 

PS: post April 17th

<<

A cette heure nous nous sommes plutôt focalisés sur l'objectif de revivre des batailles (voir même, mais cela n'engage que moi car je n'en ai pas parlé avec @Arthadan, de les revivre différemment (nouveau sort...etc. Ex.: et si Thulsa Doom se transformait en serpent géant lors de la bataille des tertres ça ferait quoi ...) à la façon des BDs "Star wars Infinities": que ce serait-il passé si Han solo n'avait pas été libéré par Luke dans le retour du Jedi lorsqu'il était captif de Jabba le Hutt...).

Il est clair que si l'on recrée un scénario où le village de Conan est attaqué alors qu'il est enfant et que Thulsa Doom se fait tuer lors de l'attaque...il n'y a plus trop de film "Conan le barbare"... Donc nous allons empêcher que ceci se produise sans pour autant réduire la joie des vainqueurs de la partie: ici le camp des héros !

L'idée à ce moment là serait d'avoir des paragraphes de type "pirouettes scénaristiques" qui protégeraient, tel ou tel perso à un moment de la partie pour le préserver pour la suite de la campagne...mais à ce moment là cela pourrait le faire sortir du jeu. De même, un personnage qui devrait mourir mais qui ne le serait  pas à la fin de la partie pourrait lui même avoir un destin funeste suite à l'application d'un paragraphe du type "pirouette scénaristique" pour remettre l'histoire sur les rails.

Ex.: Quand il y a encore peu, je jouais à "Imperial Assaut" et que Dark Vador devait mourir...en fait on le faisait s'échapper et sortir de la carte...Dark Vador ne meure pas à ce moment là ! Idem pour Han Solo, lui s'évanouissait juste mais cela n'empêchait pas le camp impérial de gagner la partie !

Ainsi, si je reviens à Conan et si je prends l'exemple de la "bataille des tertres" et qu'à la fin des tours de jeu  "Rexor" se trouvait toujours vivant mais plus Thorgrim ainsi que quelques soldats , il y aurait peut-être un petit paragraphe à lire à l'ensemble des joueurs de la table.

>>

[Florentin]

Happy birthday !!!

[Florentin]

What about dividing area 32 & 36 in two ?

[Vincent255]

1 hour ago, Florentin said:

I remember to have talk about this on the french forum, there are ages (~April 17th 2017).

This is in french...do not know if every one can understand what was written (see below PS) so I summarize the conclusion:

<<

Heroes that should not die  escape  out of the map to avoid to be killed when their hit points are under 0.

People that should die are killed at the end of the scenario...the OL read a small text that will tell the story who is going to die & how.

>>

 

However, this solution is not the one I would like now. In fact, if Valeria was not killed, she would had certainly participated to the Battle of the mounds...

If Rexor and Thorgrim had escaped the battlefield in the BOTM maybe the last fight against Thulsa Doom would not have been as easy as it was.

So I think it would be great to try to find a game system that could allow to live new "Conan the barbarian adventures".

 

PS: post April 17th

<<Snip>>

 

So long as Google Translate was sufficiently accurate, I have a good idea as to what you're getting at.  

 

One thing I'd say, is that were Valeria spared Death, she'd be likely to die at the Battle of the Mounds.  And I can see the Heroes losing the Favour of the Gods, which could well turn the  tide against them.  I say this since Valeria did see her own Death as the Price she paid for saving Conan from Death's own doorstep.  

 

Hence why I feel that her Death would have to be preordained, by way of a clear statement making clear that were she to survive the Palace Battle, Thulsa Doom takes his revenge with her Fall.  

 

As for the Village Raid?  Well, Thulsa Doom didn't turn up until after the Battle was over, so he at least is assured survival there I believe.  

[Florentin]

A question: Does the principle of "Opportunity attack" exist as an option in the Conan Core game ?

• If an opponent arrives in your line of sight, is it possible to shoot him!
• Or if he enters in your area, without attacking you and live it in the same game phase could you strike him?

Edited November 19, 2017 by Florentin

[Arthadan]

5 hours ago, Florentin said:

At present, @Arthadan I'm not certain to well understand the purpose of the low black stones you talk about.

My understanding of these stones was that they could be used to allow movement for on foot miniatures while blocking mounted miniatures. For on foot miniatures, an extra gem cost is necessary to climb on the low black stones and go in the nearby area.

 

So for me stone F could not be used by mounted miniatures.

Why are you talking about usage by mounted miniatures for stone F ?

 

In the oficial maps, all conected areas have a common border line long enough to allow the crossing of a miniature base (that is, the miniature base fits in the initial area, the common border and the final area). 

 

Regarding stones, all stones but F can be crossed only by miniatures on foot because no mounted miniature base will fit on them because they are between other stones. 

Now, stone F is between  empty flat areas and we could place a mounted miniature base on it without any space issue. What I mean is if it's a low stone and we have room to place a horse base over it, then horses should be able to jump over it. 

 

I suggest this rule for black stones: 

Any miniature can jump over a black stone as long as its base can move over it, paying 1 extra movement point, or without any extra cost if the miniature has the Jump skill.

 

What do you think?

 

 

Then, we have some areas conected by a border line so narrow that not even a dismounted miniature base would fit:

 

55<-->18

38<-->40

Stone B <-->37

Stone F <-->14

 

I'm afraid this would cause confusion among players, but I've thought about some solutions that may fix this:

 

#1 Easy solution: if base does not fit on the common border line , no crossing allowed.

#2 Solution (I bet you'd like it best): only characters on foot with the Feline Grace skill can cross between those areas paying one extra movement point. 

Second one makes sense because big guys (think of Baal Pteor for example) wouldn't be able to cross the narrow gap, but nimble fighters would be able to do it.

 

Everybody agrees on solution #2?

 

[Arthadan]

5 hours ago, Florentin said:

I remember to have talk about this on the french forum, there are ages (~April 17th 2017).

This is in french...do not know if every one can understand what was written (see below PS) so I summarize the conclusion:

<<

Heroes that should not die  escape  out of the map to avoid to be killed when their hit points are under 0.

People that should die are killed at the end of the scenario...the OL read a small text that will tell the story who is going to die & how.

>>

 

However, this solution is not the one I would like now. In fact, if Valeria was not killed, she would had certainly participated to the Battle of the mounds...

If Rexor and Thorgrim had escaped the battlefield in the BOTM maybe the last fight against Thulsa Doom would not have been as easy as it was.

So I think it would be great to try to find a game system that could allow to live new "Conan the barbarian adventures".

 

I was thinking about using official campaign as a model, implementing the same mechanic, because they are well tested and solid. In the official campaign if a character dies, he will lost any equipment obtained in the campaign scenarios and reappear in the next scenario with his starting equipment. There are some penalties like he cannot spend experience (to level up or whatever) and he cannot swap equipment with other heroes.

 

Now I agree with @Florentin, and I think allowing some small changes can be fun. After all this is the players making their own version of the movie with their actions, "living" that story and reshaping it to an extend. I suggest if Valeria dies in the assault of Thulsa Doom's mountain she will stay dead for the rest of the campaign but if she survives I'll tweak the Battle of the Mound scenario once is made so she will be included. Conan will lose the Campaign card "Not even the Gods can sever us", he won't have the increase recovery rate and, the OL will have more gems and an increase gem recovery rate, and perhaps Rexor, Thorgrim and Mr. Doom will get some some extra life points. And it could also happens that Subotai dies and Valeria survives, I'd give a thought to that posibility as well.

 

But first things first...

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Arthadan

[Florentin]

I begin to represent line of sight:

Note: line in yellow (not in orange) must be discussed because may be cause of trouble !

Edited November 19, 2017 by Florentin

[Xaltotun]

20 minutes ago, Arthadan said:

 

In the oficial maps, all conected areas have a common border line long enough to allow the crossing of a miniature base (that is, the miniature base fits in the initial area, the common border and the final area). 

 

Regarding stones, all stones but F can be crossed only by miniatures on foot because no mounted miniature base will fit on them because they are between other stones. 

Now, stone F is between  empty flat areas and we could place a mounted miniature base on it without any space issue. What I mean is if it's a low stone and we have room to place a horse base over it, then horses should be able to jump over it. 

 

I suggest this rule for black stones: 

Any miniature can jump over a black stone as long as its base can move over it, paying 1 extra movement point, or without any extra cost if the miniature has the Jump skill.

 

What do you think?

 

 

Then, we have some areas conected by a border line so narrow that not even a dismounted miniature base would fit:

 

55<-->18

38<-->40

Stone B <-->37

Stone F <-->14

 

I'm afraid this would cause confusion among players, but I've thought about some solutions that may fix this:

 

#1 Easy solution: if base does not fit on the common border line , no crossing allowed.

#2 Solution (I bet you'd like it best): only characters on foot with the Feline Grace skill can cross between those areas paying one extra movement point. 

Second one makes sense because big guys (think of Baal Pteor for example) wouldn't be able to cross the narrow gap, but nimble fighters would be able to do it.

 

Everybody agrees on solution #2?

 

 

I agree with solution 2: it makes more sense, I guess (I can't imagine a horse jumping over a slippery stone); all the miniatures have too large bases compared to their bodies.

 

By the way, I just made some small tests about movements and similar; it'd be easier for me if there was a pdf with official rules available. At least we could start sharing it by email between us.

 

It would be very helpful.

[Florentin]

19 minutes ago, Arthadan said:

 

In the oficial maps, all conected areas have a common border line long enough to allow the crossing of a miniature base (that is, the miniature base fits in the initial area, the common border and the final area). 

 

Regarding stones, all stones but F can be crossed only by miniatures on foot because no mounted miniature base will fit on them because they are between other stones. 

Now, stone F is between  empty flat areas and we could place a mounted miniature base on it without any space issue. What I mean is if it's a low stone and we have room to place a horse base over it, then horses should be able to jump over it. 

 

I suggest this rule for black stones: 

Any miniature can jump over a black stone as long as its base can move over it, paying 1 extra movement point, or without any extra cost if the miniature has the Jump skill.

 

What do you think?

 

 

Then, we have some areas conected by a border line so narrow that not even a dismounted miniature base would fit:

 

55<-->18

38<-->40

Stone B <-->37

Stone F <-->14

 

I'm afraid this would cause confusion among players, but I've thought about some solutions that may fix this:

 

#1 Easy solution: if base does not fit on the common border line , no crossing allowed.

#2 Solution (I bet you'd like it best): only characters on foot with the Feline Grace skill can cross between those areas paying one extra movement point. 

Second one makes sense because big guys (think of Baal Pteor for example) wouldn't be able to cross the narrow gap, but nimble fighters would be able to do it.

 

Everybody agrees on solution #2?

 

Thank you very much @Arthadan for this post that allows me to clearly understand your proposition.

• Ok for the jump rule ! It is fun ! I love it ! But jump maybe cause of trouble:
  • In fact what happens if in the destination area there is no more space ?
  • To make is horse  jump is not an easy thing...Should not do a test to allow this for riders ?
• I find #2 a good compromise and I'm agree with it !

 

Is your response take into account all the narrow paths showed on the map I add earlier (see below) ?

I would like to have your opinion on the different paths possibility we have !

Should we keep all of them ? 

• If so, best solution could be to apply #2
• If not, how to avoid misunderstanding and discussions between players for path that are not considered by #2 ?

 

See file in .bmp format in the post with the following picture:

 

 

[Florentin]

7 minutes ago, Xaltotun said:

 

I agree with solution 2: it makes more sense, I guess (I can't imagine a horse jumping over a slippery stone); all the miniatures have too large bases compared to their bodies.

 

By the way, I just made some small tests about movements and similar; it'd be easier for me if there was a pdf with official rules available. At least we could start sharing it by email between us.

 

It would be very helpful.

Yes a document is something I would like to have too in order we share the same view !