Conan the Barbarian

[Xaltotun]

11 minutes ago, Stonewolf said:

 as wife is hating me being up to "check my emails"

 

 

Sounds familiar to me too....

[Arthadan]

57 minutes ago, Xaltotun said:

 

I agree about Thorgrim, Rexor and the Fangs, but if you remove Fascination from (mounted) Doom.... why don't the heroes attack Doom as soon as they can to win the scenario? The Overlord too could feel himself forced to leave some minis on his defence. So the attacker and the defender would swap their role.
Don't you think?

 

 

Mr. Doom has movement 5 and armor 5, a deadly spell and he won't be short of life points. And the heroes should be pretty busy defending the Princess.

Anyway, to prevent a premature hero victory he could come into game after some turns, so heroes are already focused in protecting the princess and far from him.

[Xaltotun]

Just now, Arthadan said:

he could come into game after some turns

 

In the movie he rides at the head of his armies but arrives last on the battlefield, after Conan and Subotai have already killed many of his

[Arthadan]

47 minutes ago, Xaltotun said:

 

2 ideas for mounted combat:

 

1) It should be possible to charge: I mean to move for less than 4 areas, give a shock and move to the remaining areas.

The shock could be a single regular attack (with no reroll!), with a limited number of gems for the heroes to use.... or a different kind of attack?

Remember the medieval use of the cavalry... and Hyborian Age seems to know the stirrup use, unlike the historical ancient world.

Moreover:

-In case of charging from the hill a figure could have some bonus;

-no charge possible between the monoliths and barricades obviously.

 

 

 

 

 

2) [I'm not so sure of this] Using a spear against a mounted knight couldn't be of any (further) benefit?

 

 

What do you think?

 

 

A question:

"they are Dismounted (see below) and they change the color of their base (they 'swap' units, belonging now to the Dismounted tile)."... So, is the Overlord using both tiles at the same time for warriors? Some of them will be still mounted, while others are unhorsed at the same time...

 

This is the realism vs playability debate. Following  the philosophy of the game design, I'd keep things simple. Riders already have an attack dice upgrade to reflect their advantage and while the charge thing could be fun and the spear vs riders accurate, I'm not sure if the added complexity is worth it specially as the game seems to avoid rules for that kind of specific combat situations.

 

In an earlier version of the mounted combat rules I contemplated the possibility of a "trample attack".  It's quite similar to the "attack while moving" you suggest, only that is a free attack made by the horse that can only be dodged. If dodged, the defender moves for free to any adjacent area, if the attack succeed, the defender suffers .

Does the trample attack sound like a good enough compromise solution to add more meat to the mounted combat?

 

So, is the Overlord using both tiles at the same time for warriors? Some of them will be still mounted, while others are unhorsed at the same time...

 

They are to separated units tiles with different positions in the River and different activation cost. As the Mounted tile loses warriors, the Dismounted tile gains them. I'll clear that out in the document.

[Arthadan]

45 minutes ago, Xaltotun said:

 

Sounds familiar to me too....

 

I hear you! Somebody is not very happy when I spend my time making tiles and such.

[Arthadan]

MAP

@Stonewolf while the idea is great, I'd rather make people print as less as possible. Custom boards will never have the same replayability value as official ones simply because they are not so widespread and far less people will make scenarios for them, plus there is no shortage of official maps.

 

I think the enlarged map is the way to go, but two boards could be too much.

[Xaltotun]

24 minutes ago, Arthadan said:

This is the realism vs playability debate. Following  the philosophy of the game design, I'd keep things simple. Riders already have an attack dice upgrade to reflect their advantage and while the charge thing could be fun and the spear vs riders accurate, I'm not sure if the added complexity is worth it specially as the game seems to avoid rules for that kind of specific combat situations.

 

In an earlier version of the mounted combat rules I contemplated the possibility of a "trample attack".  It's quite similar to the "attack while moving" you suggest, only that is a free attack made by the horse that can only be dodged. If dodged, the defender moves for free to any adjacent area, if the attack succeed, the defender suffers .

Does the trample attack sound like a good enough compromise solution to add more meat to the mounted combat?

 

I was thinking about the charge also because Rexor did it...

 

Yes, I think it could be good, but if dodged I'd obly the attacker to move to the following straight area... it's difficult to stop a running horse.

Does it make sense?

The defender suffers means that no defence is possible. Right?  What about armor? Having an armor value of 2, would mean no possible damage.

 

You're definitely right about the spear, but since we're are introducing a complete new element (horses and mounted figures), I think more freedom is allowed to create the rules.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Xaltotun

[Xaltotun]

10 minutes ago, Arthadan said:

MAP

@Stonewolf while the idea is great, I'd rather make people print as less as possible. Custom boards will never have the same replayability value as official ones simply because they are not so widespread and far less people will make scenarios for them, plus there is no shortage of official maps.

 

I think the enlarged map is the way to go, but two boards could be too much.

 

The enlargement was discussed before with @Florentin, referred to the problem of moving the minis between the monoliths, I guess.
I confess I'd like a double sized map, but probably there could be also problems of scale. I don't know.
Using horses means to have need of more space (and areas!) to launch them, so enlarging it is definitely the way to go, for me too.
 

[Arthadan]

28 minutes ago, Xaltotun said:

 

I was thinking about the charge also because Rexor did it...

 

Yes, I think it could be good, but if dodged I'd obly the attacker to move to the following straight area... it's difficult to stop a running horse.

Does it make sense?

The defender suffers means that no defence is possible. Right?  What about armor? Having an armor value of 2, would mean no possible damage.

 

You're definitely right about the spear, but since we're are introducing a complete new element (horses and mounted figures), I think more freedom is allowed to create the rules.

 

Defence is possible interpreted as dodging (meaning no parry possible neither with weapons nor with shield, you only get to roll the Defense dice).

Now that you mention it, yes an armour would neglect the damage so probably damage should be  instead. Also, besides the damage, I think the defender should also go prone (same as if Dismouted) if the attack is succesful.

 

I think this kind of attack will also slow down the horse, so it should be a special movement action costing 1 point of movement.

 

About this: 

I'd obly the attacker to move to the following straight area

This could be tricky, sometimes a zone won't have a "straight" adjacent one or more than one, also you may wantto trample with your horse at the end of your movement.

 

Summarizing everything:

-The trample attack will be a new movement skill available only to Mounted models.

- The cost will be 1 movement point (perhaps 2?). Mounted models will have 4 Movemnt points (except Doom, having 5).

- The attack can be Defended but not Parried.

- If the attack is succesful, the defender goes prone as if Dismounted.

- If the attack is avoided, the Defender must move for free to any adjacent area. If this is not posible, the attack is avoided all the same.

 

Sounds good?

[Florentin]

17 hours ago, Arthadan said:

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are suggesting to actually create a 3D map, right?

 

But then, should anybody wanting to play make their own 3D map? That would limit the number of potential players for sure...

• Yes! it was exactly what I proposed ! To create a 3D map without area!

Note: On the french forum a guy introduced new rules to manage the game without area. I thought it could be interesting to test this!

Moreover, 3D is quite immersive! Conan is a 3D game ! Doors, lights, miniatures,... The only thing that is not in 3D is the map but I think it was for cost reason!

• Yes! Anybody wanting to play with its own 3D map would have to create it!

Note: But it will be the same with the whole stuff for "Conan the Barbarian": 2D map & miniatures (conversion or printed) and so on!

Except if we decide to play only with the core box elements...but it was not the purpose at the beginning of the project when we launched it!

Purpose was to be as close as possible to the movie! As I told you last evening, I thought that to use of the mini from the core box is interesting to play quickly and to do playtest. Modeling in 3D of mini would arrive later and cost is undefined at present. Conversions are between, the core box & 3D modeling miniatures.

• No! That will not limit the number of players! On the contrary, there will have more players !

Note: The number of players = Number of 2D players + Number of 3D players

At any moment I said that I did not want to see the 2D map made ?

 

To be honest, I proposed this because I saw that @Stonewolf has skills in 3D map making and I found that It would be a good idea, he participates to do it!

But as he is not interested at short term, and no one as well... forget the idea!

Edited September 27, 2017 by Florentin

[Arthadan]

@FlorentinW any player can make a 3D version of our 2D map for a more immersive experience, if they are so inclined.

 

I'm simply thinking that's going to be rather exceptional, so devoting time to adapt the scenario to a game variant using a 3D board most players won't have doesn't seem specially productive. Of course if somebody is interested, he's more than welcome to do it.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Arthadan

[Florentin]

Yes ! It would be great! One day maybe?

[Xaltotun]

On 26/9/2017 at 8:29 PM, Arthadan said:

 

- If the attack is avoided, the Defender must move for free to any adjacent area. If this is not posible, the attack is avoided all the same.

 

 

 

Yes, I think it sounds good.

 

This last idea makes sense and I like it, but, in my opinion, it works in games where the areas are thought to fit man dimensions. Am I wrong?

Looking at Conan's tabletops, it seems that a single area is too large to allow a miniature to move this way, while dodging an attack. What do you think?

 

   ***

 

Still not sure about how much it must cost in movement points.

So for the trampling attack do I have to spend only movement points? Then can I spend melee points to attack normally too?

 

[Arthadan]

@Xaltotun

Looking at Conan's tabletops, it seems that a single area is too large to allow a miniature to move this way, while dodging an attack. What do you think?

 

Agreed. No free movement to an adjacent area for the defender.

 

Still not sure about how much it must cost in movement points.

 

I'm thinking it should be 2, same as Wall breaker.

 

So for the trampling attack do I have to spend only movement points? Then can I spend melee points to attack normally too?

 

Yes, trampling only spends Movement points.

I'm thinking if the defender goes prone after the trample, he couldn't be attacked in melee by mounted miniatures. Thoughts?

 

I'm also thinking about giving the option for raiders to dismount. This would spend all movement points. Horse would be lost permanently (no possibility to mount it again), but the raider gets to attack (and can be moved spending gems on a movement benefit).

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Arthadan

[Arthadan]

And here you are the Trample skill pictogram!

[Xaltotun]

7 minutes ago, Arthadan said:

And here you are the Trample skill pictogram!

 

Very nice!

 

And putting a rider on horse?...

 

 

about costs. Could be an acceptable idea making it cost 1 movement and 1 attack too?

[Arthadan]

5 minutes ago, Xaltotun said:

 

Very nice!

 

And putting a rider on horse?...

 

 

about costs. Could be an acceptable idea making it cost 1 movement and 1 attack too?

 

I think a rider on the horse would be too distracting, this will be a tiny image on the tiles.

 

About cost, I like the idea the horse can trample an enemy itself, while the rider can make his own attack. Tiles have just one attack per activation so making it cost 1 attack means you sacrifice the rider's attack plus spend 1 movement point to trample. I think that's too much.

[Xaltotun]

3 minutes ago, Arthadan said:

 

About cost, I like the idea the horse can trample an enemy itself, while the rider can make his own attack. Tiles have just one attack per activation so making it cost 1 attack means you sacrifice the rider's attack plus spend 1 movement point to trample. I think that's too much.

 

Ok, sure,  but we should balance the costs vs the effect produced...

[Florentin]

I'm afraid that riders become to powerfull with trample ! Do not forget that they are 14 riders in the movie!  And only 2 + 1/2 heroes on this version to fight! 

I think new skills should be offered to the heroes to get rid of the riders before they be too many on the map!

i.e.: Trample stop

Capability to be hidden, ....

Edited September 29, 2017 by Florentin

[Arthadan]

35 minutes ago, Florentin said:

I'm afraid that riders become to powerfull with trample ! Do not forget that they are 14 riders in the movie!  And only 2 + 1/2 heroes on this version to fight! 

I think new skills should be offered to the heroes to get rid of the riders before they be too many on the map!

i.e.: Trample stop

Capability to be hidden, ....

 

Well, we have skills like Counterattack (Riposte, in French) which grants a free attack of a every time you're attacked.

 

This is just costing 2 movements points out of 4 for a Mounted tile. Heroes will have armor, meaning they'll ignore the attack without even spending gems most of the time and the OL may need to spend gems on movement benefit. Also, Mounted units have big bases, meaning zones will get saturated pretty easily.

 

Anyway, this is a late campaign scenario. Heroes are supposed to have leveled up now. At level 1 they will lose one skill from their hero sheet, at level 2 they'll be as they come in the hero sheets and at level 3 they'll get a new skill. So, yes in this scenario they'll be more powerful. I want it to be epic!

 

[Xaltotun]

I think that we should work on the tabletop to balance the scenario. We must consider carefully:

 

- define the borders;

- areas extension;

- areas special properties (ex. No horses through the monolith area? Where the horses are allowed to pass? Barricades? Skeletons use?...)

 

That was the winning card for Conan and Subotai: they chose the battlefield.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Xaltotun

[Arthadan]

I've been thinking about the map as well. Let me share an anecdote, playing the Death Star mission in a computer game I decided to try another approach. I flew far above the surface, parallel to the trench and only got into the deadly trench when I was close to the exhaust port. Mission was a success and far easier.

 

What I mean with this is that a clever OL will avoid the monolith field, surrounding it with the fast moving cavalry. Then taking the princess, thus winning, will be a piece ok cake. It's not "cinematic" but it is the clever way.

 

Now we have to think how to fix this without altering the layout of the map.

 

My first thought was to include the heroes death in the OL victory conditions, and this may work. As long as Thorgrim and Rexor are alive, OL victory conditions would be:

- Take the Princess out of the board.

- Kill Conan and Subotai.

 

Once Rexor and Thorgrim are dead, the OL victory conditions would be simply killing the Princess, or an automatic win of she's out of the table.

 

I'm thinking about adding more traps for the heroes to set outside the monolith field, making less attractive for the OL to grab the Princess right from the start and make some areas impassable for mounted miniatures (palisades). Also, some areas inside the monolith field will be too small for a horse base to fit in, meaning they're impassable for them. But definitely, I want horses inside some other areas of the monolith field because that's what we see in the film.

 

When I start working on the map, I'll try to release a printer-friendly map without zones. Just blank space, with circles for hills and a rectangle for the monolith field (all this respecting the layout from Florentin 's map) , with some other important features represented in an equally schematic way. And then we all can print it and play around with good old pen and paper, trying different zones division after setting the guidelines for designing them.

 

But we're not there yet...

 

 

[Xaltotun]

5 hours ago, Arthadan said:

 

But we're not there yet...

 

 

Yes, I know. I was just giving my idea about balancing the play between heroes and mounted ol army.

 

 

I uploaded many images to help you with the tiles. Let me know what can do for you now. 

Or I can start with images for other scenarios (doom cultists, priests, first battle... etc...)

[Arthadan]

1 hour ago, Xaltotun said:

 

Yes, I know. I was just giving my idea about balancing the play between heroes and mounted ol army.

 

 

I uploaded many images to help you with the tiles. Let me know what can do for you now. 

Or I can start with images for other scenarios (doom cultists, priests, first battle... etc...)

 

Thanks man! But for now I prefer to keep the focus on the first scenario. I have all the graphic reference material I need thanks to you, just need some spare time. Hopefully I'll get some more tiles done tomorrow.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Arthadan

[Florentin]

A new basic map to do test was created.

It is +30% greater than the last one with better quality.

Help yourself!

here

Note: a lot of items could be used to transform it in the map of the movie!

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Florentin