Neil Amswych

Does Atali affect hindering? Can she Kiss of Death on others? In other words, Conan is the only hero who can interact with her but can she interact with others?

We’re going to play Shuang Mian at 4 as well

Ok

Pick a two-handed weapon for me to test to Conan. (Test starts in 20 mins!)

One of our players couldn’t make the regular campaign game so we’re testing this instead. I don’t think that either of those changes address the concerns expressed earlier. The two wizards can sit pretty while everyone just rags on Hadrathus. If success is essentially tied to one character (assuming that no-one ever gets to kill the ODD unless the OL is a blithering fool) then all the OL has to do is kill that character. I think making the wand accessible to others changes the scenario enormously, although i understsnd in terms of narrative that you may not want to do that.

So we’ll add those changes and see, but I’m skeptical.

We may have a chance to test this on Saturday. Has anyone else tested this since the changes? I think it needs a lot of testing, especially because it’s a final scenario.

I’ll try to gather some people to test it. I’m still not convinced by having two Dark Demons but at least if they have the Medallion of Zhangpau they’ll have a chance. I suggest testing this with them having retrieved either the Medallion or a Xuthal’s Crown from my scenario, but not both, since that’s extremely difficult. Still with a move of 8, the ODD is still a very difficult target to hit.

We’ll test it and see.

@Ken, if you make some tweaks I could try playtesting it again next week.

9 hours ago, Primeval said:

Alright, I will take care of that as well - thanks for the heads up.

 

Edit: Actually there is no Dark Demon in mine, unless the medallion works against the Outer Dark Demon as well?

Nope. Only the Dark Demon.

We playtested The Streets of Khemi tonight. Loved it but it's very unbalanced and in need of serious modification and then more playtesting. Feel free to look at our comments here...

7 hours ago, Primeval said:

I have amended mine to include the changes/edits mentioned above. Good stuff guys.

Any scenario that comes after Fight or Flight and has the Dark Demon (but not the Outer Dark Demon) in it also needs to have blurb for the Medallion from Fight or Flight... "If a hero engaging in a melee attack against the Dark Demon is carrying the Medallion of Zhangpau, its Guard is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 2."

Just spent a couple of hours playtesting this tonight.

Introduction

We love this scenario. We love the map, we love the idea. We love the Scepter with the spell. We love the Atali Enchantment (Conan fell and took 2 damage immediately!). We really enjoy the idea that you need to kill a demon in order to get an artifact in order to attack Shuang Mian. 

Areas for Work

.... but, this scenario as it currently is is totally unbalanced in favour of the Overlord. We played with Atali in the game but without any other things, such as the heroes having the Medallion from Fight or Flight, or any other level up abilities or communal gems. Even so, even if we had used them, it would have been totally unbalanced.

Here are the reasons why...

By the end of the game, Conan had one gem left and Hadrathus, Niord and Ikhmet were dead. The Overlord had only three models off the tables - two Javelin Throwers and Atali. That's absolutely unbalanced. There are a number of reasons why we believed that this happened:

1) The Reinforcement rate is way too high. We would suggest dropping it to 4 or 5. I was able to reinforce Javelin Throwers and fired 5 of them onto Ikhmet in one turn. That was crazy, especially half way through the game.

2) There are too many Dark Demons. The Outer Dark Demon is a viable target, although with a Guard of 3 and health of 10, it's tough to kill. But then to have the Dark Demon on top it's just pure muscle and way too much attack.

3) Apart from Atali, there's really no chance for the heroes to take out a tile, thereby causing the OL to have to dredge the river. There are too many models per tile. 

As the OL, I didn't even get to use Mind Control because of the movement limit of 2. That means that the Xuthal's Crowns were irrelevant.  It's so hard to get the two sorcerers together that in fact all the OL has to do at the moment is kill Hadrathus because if the heroes get close to killing the Outer Dark Demon it can just fly away so they never get the Stygian Artifact and therefore have to kill Thoth Amon. Since Thoth Amon has Set Halo, Bori's Rage isn't enough to really do him much damage so the heroes then have to find the Scepter. But since Hadrathus is the only person who can use the Scepter, if you kill him then that's game over for the heroes.

Suggested Changes

There are a few things that need to be changed. Not all of them, though, because that would be too unbalanced the other way!

1) Take out the Outer Dark Demon. Have the Stygian Artifact be the reward for killing the Dark Demon. That's still a very hard thing to do, especially with Jinx and a Guard of 3. This would be our first recommendation by far. Others include...

2) Reduce the Reinforcement rate, perhaps to 4 or 5.

3) Split the Bossonian Guards into two tiles.

4) Reduce the gem recovery rate.

5) Have anyone be able to use the Scepter. Perhaps non-spellcasters suffer a -1 damage penalty.

Another change that isn't about game balance but is about how the game feels is the Crossbow. Nobody's using that. Three of the heroes roll yellows for ranged attacks and the only one who doesn't is Conan and he's not using a Crossbow. So, either change that for an Empty Chest or, if you want to increase the balance towards the heroes again, an Explosive Orb. The Explosive Orb could be a lot of fun if the heroes can get the OL's minions to bunch up a little.

Conclusion

In theory, this is an excellent boss battle and wonderful way to end a campaign narrative. In practice at the moment, it's totally unbalanced and would be a very frustrating way to end a campaign. One or two tweaks might really change that. But this needs some serious playtesting to balance it out before it's ready.

P.S. You need to add text from Fight or Flight about the Medallion, in case the heroes have it.

What's the point of the Stygian Artifact?

Never mind, I found it. Smart.

On 6/4/2018 at 6:35 AM, Ken said:

 

My play-testing included 2 Xuthal's Crowns and the scenario skews towards the heroes. I would be curious to see how it plays out with 0 or 1.

 

If playing with 1, let me know which hero started with the crown and how the decision affected the outcome. I say this because Hadrathus is really important to this scenario and probably should get it, but Conan hits hard and can do some damage if he is possessed. 

I posted elsewhere but just want to check. What does "no self-harm" mean in this scenario? Can a possessed hero attack another hero, just not themselves? 

"The Overlord takes control of a character who is not wearing Xuthal’s Crown. The Overlord may move up to four gems from their reserve zone to their fatigue zone. For each gem moved in this manner, the Overlord may move one gem from the possessed character's reserve to any of the character's action spaces, but may place a maximum of 2 in any one action space. This must follow exertion limits. The Overlord may not use the character's free movement points, may not instruct the character to inflict self-harm, or use community gems. Once the Overlord chooses to stop using gems to activate the character, Mind Possession ends. The Overlord then gains 8 reinforcement points."

Firstly, I would suggest a tweak of "The Overlord may move up to four gems from their own Reserve Zone to their own Fatigue Zone." I mention that because the previous sentence could be read in combination to suggest that the Overlord moves the gems according to the character (N.B. should probably read "hero") that they chose.

My question is, what else would you do other than move someone? You say they can't self-harm (do you mean they can't hurt another hero? If so, you should specifically say that because another hero isn't the self) so what would they do? Attack a minion? That's not helpful. Reroll or use a Manipulation? I'm not sure what else one would do other than move a hero. Please explain what I'm missing.

Also, are we doing community gems?

N.B. In the rules for Mind Possession, you've got a typo of 3 S's and then 1S, instead of 2 and 2 in "possession."

Exciting-looking scenario. Looking forward to testing it tomorrow evening.

Me again. I've come up with a cunning plan, a plan so cunning that you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel.

"The muscles in Hadrathus' legs burned from running for three days and the dizziness of exhaustion brought about by an intolerable lack of food almost overtook him, despite finally reaching the port of Shu Chen. He and his colleagues paused to momentarily breathe in the evening air which, despite its frosty undertone, brought no comfort. As he did, he remembered the times since the Tower when they had so narrowly escaped death at the hand of Thoth Amon's diabolical assassin. His spell book, now badly damaged, was in desperate need of repair since their last encounter, but there is no time to address that now. He knew it would only be a matter of time before Thoth Amon's spies would bring back word of their location, and that time was rapidly running out.".....

Hadrathus' Spell Book: In this scenario, Hadrathus' spell book has been badly damaged and cannot be used at the present time. Hadrathus therefore has to choose whether to keep his now tattered spell book with him. If he chooses to keep it, he must end the scenario carrying it in order to use it in future scenarios. If he chooses to discard it, he may not use it again.

So, he has his damn book, which is good for consistency, but tough luck, Wizard, you can't use it this scenario. That puts Fight or Flight back on track without heavy modifications caused by adding the spell book and it puts pressure on Hadrathus during that scenario. It also nicely builds up the narrative to the final scenarios where he does have it and is therefore more powerful.

If everyone is okay with this, please put in all subsequent scenarios "If Hadrathus has the spell book...." before giving the relevant spell book rules. I can't imagine any heroes choosing to drop it, but it's nice for them to have the choice.

Thanks

On 6/11/2018 at 5:45 AM, Ken said:

Scenario 2 – Fight or Flight

Since there is no timer or immediate pressure on the heroes, they began by resting. As overlord, I activated units so I could get the dark demon on the board, but there was nothing to actually do but try to recruit the pirates.

 

The heroes then proceeded to head as a group to the temple, kill all the guards, and retrieve the medallion. By the time the dark demon appeared, most of the heroes were already on their way to the boats. I decided to attack the straggler (Ikhmet) with a double activation from the dark demon - especially because he was the one carrying the medallion. I managed to deplete his entire reserve of gems, but not get any damage through.

 

At this point, the other heroes began systematically killing all the minions on the board - and the dark demon was too far away to impact anything. Realizing the game was lost for the overlord, instead of finishing the scenario we agreed to undo the dark demon's attack on Ikhmet and instead move to the center of the board for better positioning. I was able to lock down Yogah and Hadrathus this way, but then Ikhmet and Shentu proceeded to systematically kill all of the overlord's minions. The Dark Demon could not damage Hadrathus (he rolls an average of 6 hits, but  Hadrathus blocks 2 with Mitra's Halo and has enough gems to defend against the rest)  so I attacked Yogah. I managed to hurt Yogah, but Hadrathus healed him the next turn.  With so many minion tiles in the river, and no ability to call reinforcements, it was difficult to put pressure on the heroes. Eventually I was able to dredge the river enough to activate the dark demon twice every other round, but Yogah was in full passive mode with total defense with Hadrathus healing. I could have moved the demon to attack Ikhmet or Shentu, but that would have freed up Yogah and Hadrathus. 

 

When all the minions were gone and only the dark demon remained, the heroes found the merchant. Shentu ended his turn to flip the merchant token, and then Ikhment picked it up and left the board. Looking back, I am not sure if the merchant rule is for the hero (singular) to end their turn or all the heroes (plural) to end their turn before flipping the token. If the later, the overlord should have had one more turn, but I am not sure it would have made a difference. We discussed the game afterwards and could not figure out what I should have done differently to win. I could have moved the dark demon to the exit point, but with teleportation that would not have helped anyway.

 

Did we play this wrong, or is there an OL strategy I missed?

 

Question: 

Can we change the text for the medallion to reduce the demon's guard "by 1" rather than "to 2"? This could lead to confusion in later scenarios determining the order of applying bonuses.

"The Medallion of Zhangpau : The Medallion is in the space marked with the number 1. It can be removed from its holder with a complex manipulation with a difficult of 4. If the Dark Demon is in the same area as the Medallion, its Guard is reduced by 1."

 

 

So, I'm tweaking this anyway to add in the spell book, and I've made the change to the Medallion that I forgot to add, which is that it only reduces the Dark Demon's Guard value by 1 if it's facing a melee attack from the person carrying it. So, if the heroes want to share it around they have to attack, drop, spend to pick up, etc.

In terms of strategy, I'm afraid I think you got it all wrong. If the heroes rest on turn 1, ignore the pirates. The crows are the OL's friends. I always bring a crow into the Temple to make it really hard to get the Medallion out. Crows help with hindering so you can just fly them towards the Temple and stagger them. The heroes spending gems on crows is great. I sometimes put a crow by the southern-most treasure chest just to make that one trickier, too. You could even have brought out the Temple Guards from the Temple to attack the heroes while they sat there. But Temples Guards plus Crows is not a friendly combo for the heroes at all.

Moreover, if the Dark Demon is attacking Ikhmet with 3 rerolling reds, and Ikhmet can't reroll any dice due to Jinx, the heroes were CRAZY lucky that the DD didn't get any damage in. I find that almost totally incredible, especially with a double activation (although I appreciate that depending on where Ikhmet was, the DD may not have been able to get two attacks in. Nonetheless, three reds with rerolls should do serious damage).

The minions are nothing. Let them get slaughtered while the heroes spend gems. If they don't have enough to defend against the Dark Demon, they're not getting past him because of his Blocking ability. If the Dark Demon blocks the exit point, it doesn't matter who has Teleportation because they can't Teleport the merchant. They have to kill the DD or Hadrathus has to Push the DD so the others can get through. In the meantime, though, all the DD has to do is kill the merchant, which with a Guard of 1 and only 4 health is possible.

However, I'm aware that the Spell Book may change things dramatically, so we'll see in testing this weekend.

Thanks

In the first adventure, the description of Hadrathus' Spellbook mentions blue gems. I'm assuming that was a direct copy from the original campaign but I'm guessing that should come out. Also "throughout" should be one word and "exertion" has a t, not an s (unless that's another weird American spelling I don't know about!)

Tomorrow, I'm going to test Fight or Flight with the spell book. Although I appreciate that there are differences in Conan stories between differing items, it is odd for every other adventure to have the book and not one. So I'll make some tweaks tonight and will post a version to test. Thanks.

I clearly didn’t update after the last playtest. Only the wearer of the Medallion gets the bonus. Thanks for spotting it.

13 minutes ago, Ken said:

 

The crossbowmen were killed immediately after the javelin throwers. The heroes did not start looking for the merchant until all other threats were eliminated and only the dark demon remained. 

Then the Dark Demon should have murdered them.

Maybe the holder of the Medallion reduces but not the whole area effect.

I could put the spell book in. I rather liked the idea of it having been damaged in the conflict alluded to in the blurb between scenarios 1 and 2. But if it’s in the subsequent scenarios then that doesn’t quite make sense.

Could someone test it with the spellbook and the Medallion at 1? My group can test that when I get back on the 17th.

7 minutes ago, Ken said:

 

Yeah, they went for the crown, but at that point they controlled the board.

So you’re saying they got the Medallion and the Crown and got out?!? That’s extremely rare. It’s almost impossible to do that. This could be the result

of the Medallion shifting from 1 to 2. But at 1, it was a choice of Medallion or Crown.

In theory, the crossbowmen should tear through the heroes. If not the heroes, then the Merchant himself.

Quick thought, though.

Yes, the OL loses a lot of people but is able to dredge the river as a result. If the heroes rest I bring out the guards to attack them and maybe the crows too. Spread everyone out so they have to pay to move and attack. I did originally have the Medallion reduce by 1.

If the heroes don’t go for the Xuthal’s Crown then it isn’t too hard but the point is they have to sacrifice a serious advantage later. I take it yours didn’t go for the crown?

@Ken, I’m on holiday at the moment. I’ve never seen the game be such a slaughter. I don’t know how that’s possible. 

Which version were you using? 

I’ll be back in a week.

Fair thought. I had been using the Stygian Artifact. Not sure what the better replacement would be.