Primeval Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 That is awesome! I am sure it feels great to see all this work coming to fruition! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentin Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Arthadan said: Today it has been printing day! Feels good to have all these digital creations in physical form. Great!!!! I think you could put the princess on the monolith or on the border line with the Monolith ! How do you print the map ? On which paper ? Riders are wonderful !!!! Could you send a picture @Arthadan of the map with miniatures from above please ? Did you stick the tiles on cardboard ? And the heroes cards ? It yes, what kind of cardboard did you use ? Edited November 10, 2017 by Florentin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthadan Posted November 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, Florentin said: Great!!!! I think you could put the princess on the monolith or on the border line with the Monolith ! How do you print the map ? On which paper ? Riders are wonderful !!!! Could you send a picture of the map with miniatures from above please ? I've printed the map in 15 sheets (A4 size). In 5 "rows" of 3 and then stuck them together with tape. For a prototype version it will do. About the paper, I went to a printing shop. It is the thin cardboard they use for photograph but it is thicker than normal paper. I'll post more pics tomorrow. By the way, how are the last modifications on the map progressing ? I'll draw those myself on my prototype when they're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentin Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Arthadan said: I've printed the map in 15 sheets (A4 size). In 5 "rows" of 3 and then stuck them together with tape. For a prototype version it will do. About the paper, I went to a printing shop. It is the thin cardboard they use for photograph but it is thicker than normal paper. I'll post more pics tomorrow. By the way, how are the last modifications on the map progressing ? I'll draw those myself on my prototype when they're done. Thank you ! I will do the update tomorrow on the map! Sorry, I am too tired this evening to do this because the week was crazy at office 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaltotun Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) Great work @Arthadan! I think that a couple of words about palisades effects are needed. We're almost there guys! Congratulations! Edited November 10, 2017 by Xaltotun 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaltotun Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 @Arthadan Probably the Mounted Combat rules can be put in the first pages of the campaign, before the scenarios; anyway at the moment is better to insert them in the campaign rules. I remember we talked about forbidding to dismount for the first turns. Am I wrong? About the palisades, I think that we should allow the heroes and foot soldiers to move across, or the heros will be definitely cut off from Yasmina mound.... and how can Subotai save her with his shield at the end. Maybe they can use the passages @Florentin left between them to move with no extra cost, or climbing them for an extra movement 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentin Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) I think the use of the alternative heroes cards I created would be more immersive for the heroes ! The ones you created @Arthadan would be great for other scenario of the campaign! Edited November 11, 2017 by Florentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaltotun Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) @Florentin Recently I've been talking so much about palisades and passing through them or less, and eventually how. Connected to this matter, is the need to surround them with white border in a proper way. This is not a matter of graphics only; it concern the way the game could go: how to reach Yasmina? So my idea is this: - Palisades/stakes can't be crossed by horsemen; - they are not easy to pass by infantry, so passing them will cost an amount of gems; - they can't be passed by foot men carrying Yasmina (think about: this is very important point!); - as previously agreed, the only way to reach the top of the mound for a mounted figure is the back path (yellow arrow), as we see in the movie; - as we know Subotai and Akiro run to the top to protect Yasmina at the end, following probably the blue or the green arrows, so it makes sense to leave a tight path to reach the top of the mound running for any dismounted figure with no penalty movement. In the map below you can see in red all the changes I had already showed you, plus the movement vectors to climb the mound. The problem is the connection between the areas A and B. It makes sense that doom troopers could ride all the perimether of the table top, but my suggestion is to put a "palisade bush" between these 2 areas. Compare these 2 maps: As you can see, this would mean: - one step more using this path; - Having two areas (B and C) as necessary step to reach Yasmina with mounted troop. - Having only 2 areas to defend would be easier for the heros in case. Edited November 11, 2017 by Xaltotun 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthadan Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Florentin said: I think the use of the alternative heroes cards I created would be more immersive for the heroes ! The ones you created @Arthadan would be great for other scenario of the campaign! Please check the last version of Subotai skills. He has "Protected" no more. Also, I think it would be good to put in the download name these are Alternate hero sheets, so people don't get confused when downloading. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthadan Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) Some eye candy! These great board and conversions were made by Zach Hershberger of the club: Army Group York, Pennsylvania. Enjoy! Edited November 11, 2017 by Arthadan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaltotun Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 @Florentin I also suggest to add a stake here: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaltotun Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 @Arthadan Maybe we should remember inside the scenario rules that mounds block the line of sight, so it's impossible to throw an arrow to the opposite side of the hill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentin Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Arthadan said: Please check the last version of Subotai skills. He has "Protected" no more. Also, I think it would be good to put in the download name these are Alternate hero sheets, so people don't get confused when downloading. Why did you modify the Subotai hero card & suppress this skill without updating the card in this topic ? I don't remember to have discuss together about this ? That doesn't matter! In fact, to my mind, we can do what we want because we have not yet begin to play & evaluate/test the game! Moreover, I think it is too early to say that game is not balanced consequence of only one skill modification for only one hero! But I can modify the card if it is judged dangerous for the balance of the game ! Furthermore, I have the feeling that a lot of heroes skills could be updated in the future after many game tests to balance the game! Whatever about skill, @Arthadan, I think it is a pity to use heroes cards with pictures that don't match with the battle of the mounds. In fact, The Subotai's picture that was used is the one that could be used with the wolfs witch scenario not for the battle of the mounds. The Conan's picture that was used could be used for the cave battle not for the battle of the mounds. I understand these pictures were used because they were available at the beginning of the projects to do the heroes cards and it was a good thing ! Now, we are doing our best to be the more representative in this scenario than the movie. As an example, consequence of your remarks, I change some degrees orientation of the Yasmina's stones. I think it is time to use the right heroes cards and for each next scenarii! Edited November 11, 2017 by Florentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthadan Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Xaltotun said: @Arthadan Maybe we should remember inside the scenario rules that mounds block the line of sight, so it's impossible to throw an arrow to the opposite side of the hill. I plan to make a "Game Board Rules" PDF with the terrain-specific rules of our board, same as the game board rules we can find in the official OL book version 2. I'm just waiting to have the last version of the map. Edited November 11, 2017 by Arthadan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthadan Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Florentin said: Why did you modify the Subotai hero card & suppress this skill without updating the card in this topic ? I don't remember to have discuss together about this ? That doesn't matter! In fact, to my mind, we can do what we want because we have not yet begin to play & evaluate/test the game! Moreover, I think it is too early to say that game is not balanced consequence of only one skill modification for only one hero! But I can modify the card if it is judged dangerous for the balance of the game ! Furthermore, I have the feeling that a lot of heroes skills could be updated in the future after many game tests to balance the game! Whatever about skill, @Arthadan, I think it is a pity to use heroes cards with pictures that don't match with the battle of the mounds. In fact, The Subotai's picture that was used is the one that could be used with the wolfs witch scenario not for the battle of the mounds. The Conan's picture that was used could be used for the cave battle not for the battle of the mounds. I understand these pictures were used because they were available at the beginning of the projects to do the heroes cards and it was a good thing ! Now, we are doing our best to be the more representative in this scenario than the movie. As an example, consequence of your remarks, I change some degrees orientation of the Yasmina's stones. I think it is time to use the right heroes cards and for each next scenarii! You are absolutely right, I should have shared the change for comments. Too many things at the same time, sorry! About pictures, I have the whole campaign in mind. I prefer to make people print a single sheet for each hero for the whole campaign, so I tried to chose images that work for most of the film (Subotai, Valeria) or are specially iconic (Conan). That said, I think your alternates sheets are a great idea for people wanting to play the scenario as a stand-alone or not minding to print more than one sheet per hero. Speaking about image composition, I think your sheets are good but if you want me to play around with any of them and see what I can came up with, I'll be happy to oblige. Now, back to Subotai's replaced skill: - The original one is (Untochable): When this character defends against a Ranged Attack, their armor value is increased by 1 for that defense. - The new skill is (Lock-picking). I think it makes more sense. What do you think? Also, I'm going to add in the Special Rules of the Scenario that Yasmina has (Protected )for this scenario. Edited November 11, 2017 by Arthadan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentin Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Arthadan said: You are absolutely right, I should have shared the change for comments. Too many things at the same time, sorry! About pictures, I have the whole campaign in mind. I prefer to make people print a single sheet for each hero for the whole campaign, so I tried to chose images that work for most of the film (Subotai, Valeria) or are specially iconic (Conan). That said, I think your alternates sheets are a great idea for people wanting to play the scenario as a stand-alone or not minding to print more than one sheet per hero. Speaking about image composition, I think your sheets are good but if you want me to play around with any of them and see what I can came up with, I'll be happy to oblige. Now, back to Subotai's replaced skill: - The original one is (Untochable): When this character defends against a Ranged Attack, their armor value is increased by 1 for that defense. - The new skill is (Lock-picking). I think it makes more sense. What do you think? Also, I'm going to add in the Special Rules of the Scenario that Yasmina has (Protected )for this scenario. I understand now your point of view about characters sheets but I'm not agree with the choice of the Conan picture no more for the Subotai one ! For me, they are two specific to specific scenes of the movie! If you would like only one hero card for each heroes It would be better to choose a Conan, Subotai's pictures that is representative of them in the Cities! look at the various pictures of the heroes: To my mind, I thing people are enough adult to know what they would like to print! It is better to let the choice to players to print or not the heroes card they would like ! I find it would be a good idea to propose specific hero card printing for each scenario! But if for economic reason or other, people prefer to work with only one hero card for the whole game they could do what they would like and not consider the aditionnal heroes cards ! I can send you all the pictures I used: they are to the community for the game and the project! Which format would you like to have: gimp ? jpg? bmp ? other ! After I can update the heroes card too ! Yes, I'm agree if you choose only one card for Subotai the Lock-picking is a good choice ! Edited November 11, 2017 by Florentin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthadan Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) @Xaltotun @Florentin Quote @Florentin - Palisades/stakes can't be crossed by horsemen; - they are not easy to pass by infantry, so passing them will cost an amount of gems; - they can't be passed by foot men carrying Yasmina (think about: this is very important point!); - as previously agreed, the only way to reach the top of the mound for a mounted figure is the back path (yellow arrow), as we see in the movie; - as we know Subotai and Akiro run to the top to protect Yasmina at the end, following probably the blue or the green arrows, so it makes sense to leave a tight path to reach the top of the mound running for any dismounted figure with no penalty movement. Here is my suggestion. - Pallisades (chevaux de frise) cannot be crossed by mounted or foot miniatures. - Between the pallisades we will have smaller zones (too small for a horse base) with stakes. Miniatures on foot can cross stakes zones at an increase movement cost. - Only "bosses" (Thorgrim, Rexor and Thulsa Doom) can dismount, I thiunk if they manage to capture Yasmina on foot and move through the stakess with the movement reduction for carrying Yasmina plus the movement reduction for crossing the stakes, they should be able to do so. Agreed on the last two: - as previously agreed, the only way to reach the top of the mound for a mounted figure is the back path (yellow arrow), as we see in the movie; You mean the top yellow arrow, I guess. - as we know Subotai and Akiro run to the top to protect Yasmina at the end, following probably the blue or the green arrows, so it makes sense to leave a tight path to reach the top of the mound running for any dismounted figure with no penalty movement. Yes, the lower yellow arrow should be a zone too small for cavalry to cross, with no stakes nor pallisades. Quote The problem is the connection between the areas A and B. It makes sense that doom troopers could ride all the perimether of the table top, but my suggestion is to put a "palisade bush" between these 2 areas. Compare these 2 maps: As you can see, this would mean: - one step more using this path; - Having two areas (B and C) as necessary step to reach Yasmina with mounted troop. - Having only 2 areas to defend would be easier for the heros in case. Since Yasmina ha got the Protected skill, maybe we ca leave this as it is, what do you think? Edited November 11, 2017 by Arthadan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthadan Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 12 minutes ago, Florentin said: I understand now your point of view about characters sheets but I'm not agree with the choice of the Conan picture no more for the Subotai one ! For me, they are two specific to specific scenes of the movie! If you would like only one hero card for each heroes It would be better to choose a Conan, Subotai's pictures that is representative of them in the Cities! look at the various pictures of the heroes: To my mind, I thing people are enough adult to know what they would like to print! It is better to let the choice to players to print or not the heroes card they would like ! I find it would be a good idea to propose specific hero card printing for each scenario! But if for economic reason or other, people prefer to work with only one hero card for the whole game they could do what they would like and not consider the aditionnal heroes cards ! I can send you all the pictures I used: they are to the community for the game and the project! Which format would you like to have: gimp ? jpg? bmp ? other ! After I can update the heroes card too ! Yes, I'm agree if you choose only one card for Subotai the Lock-picking is a good choice ! It's a nice touch to offer alternate illustations, but I think we have it covered for now with you sheets. I'll make more for the campaign but for now I'll focus on the scenario. Our December deadline is too damn close! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthadan Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Mounted Combat rules updated with @Primeval clarifications! Thanks man! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentin Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Arthadan said: It's a nice touch to offer alternate illustations, but I think we have it covered for now with you sheets. I'll make more for the campaign but for now I'll focus on the scenario. Our December deadline is too damn close! @Arthadan ! You are not alone on the project ! Sometimes when I read you, I have the impression you are doing the project alone ??? I think that in the package for the battle of the mounds it would be necessary to use pictures with the right armor for the heroes! In fact at this first step, we have only one scenario. When we look to our production speed, it is clear that the next scenario would be produced in many months! So I'm convinced that for the fans players, it would be better to have heroes cards consistent with the scenario! In the future we will use, as an option, the only one card solution for heroes, for the whole scenarii of the campaign for those who would like to save their printer ink cartridges! To be consistent with your improvement, I will update the new skill for Subotai on my Subotai's "hero cards" ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaltotun Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Arthadan said: @Xaltotun @Florentin Here is my suggestion. - Pallisades (chevaux de frise) cannot be crossed by mounted or foot miniatures. - Between the pallisades we will have smaller zones (too small for a horse base) with stakes. Miniatures on foot can cross stakes zones at an increase movement cost. - Only "bosses" (Thorgrim, Rexor and Thulsa Doom) can dismount, I thiunk if they manage to capture Yasmina on foot and move through the stakess with the movement reduction for carrying Yasmina plus the movement reduction for crossing the stakes, they should be able to do so. Agreed on the last two: - as previously agreed, the only way to reach the top of the mound for a mounted figure is the back path (yellow arrow), as we see in the movie; You mean the top yellow arrow, I guess. - as we know Subotai and Akiro run to the top to protect Yasmina at the end, following probably the blue or the green arrows, so it makes sense to leave a tight path to reach the top of the mound running for any dismounted figure with no penalty movement. Yes, the lower yellow arrow should be a zone too small for cavalry to cross, with no stakes nor pallisades. Since Yasmina ha got the Protected skill, maybe we ca leave this as it is, what do you think? I mean both yellow arrows, as long as we add stakes between A and B areas, if we agree. It makes not much sense that 'you can pass where your base fit it': this is a simulation. Look at the broken walls tokens or at the door size: some bases don't fit, but even huge figures move through anyway (ex the giant serpent inside the pict's hut). That's why I'd prefer to add those stakes, unless someone has a better solution. It's also important that dismounted figures could move to the top of the hill following the blue or the green arrows or both, for the reasons I explained. Anyway this is only my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentin Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 The updated version of Subotai: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primeval Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 16 hours ago, Arthadan said: Mounted Combat rules updated with @Primeval clarifications! Thanks man! My pleasure, glad I could help! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaltotun Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) Hi guys, I didn't want to enter in your conversation about the sheets, since my first object is to have material (rules and map) finally ready for the tests to begin. Infact I'm quite sure that most of the matters that are dividing us will find their solution playing. Some examples: I made my print of the map last weekend and trying to make a first rough test alone, I realized some of the problem that the map as we have can generate: some you have showed me were not, some we have discussed yesterday. I also thought that too many sheets were on the table, and that maybe the arrow counter can be easily changed in a pile of single arrows to be given to Subotai player, once he flipped the 5 arrows token on the map. Personally I'd prefer different sheets for the characters (but only one to be used all the campaign, like in the official Monolith campaign!), and I'd prefer a fully armoured Conan, as in some of the pics uploaded by @Florentin. Do you want to know more? It's a campaign, so it means the evolution of the characters depends on the play. So I'd have prefered that Valeria can be eventually considered in case she didn't die in the previous scenario. I prefered not to enter in these further discussion because, in my opinion, we need to proceed step by step: -define the general project of the campaign -define rules for the first scenario to create; -create all the necessary material (even roughly) to play it, knowing that it can be (and mostly surely be) changed once the tests are completed. -test the scenario; -rearrange map, rules, skills, equipment -work on the alternate version of the scenario in case (in the official monolith campaign there are more than one, depending on who won the previous); -rearrange the graphical. -update the global project of the campaign, if needed; -start with the next one. So that's why my last post were focusing on map and rules. By the way, it is true that this is not a single man project, so it'd be better to share the most; obviously sharing means to me renouncing sometimes. But - and this is the most important - most of the decision will come only after the tests, when we will discuss and compare our experiences. I really understand @Florentin position about a more cooperative work, as I understand @Arthadan too, who probably prefer to have a first fixed rules to start. I hope none of you will be irked by my post. It's only my personal opinion. Guys, we are working by messages and forum, no common motherlanguage, no face to face contact, no vocal chat, discussion, arguing face to face, no tests together.... it's hard! We need to be patient to each other and opened to each other ideas, but keeping in mind our path, and that we must move step by step... ...or the project sooner or later will abort. Be sure of this. I repeat: I hope that none of you can feel offended or irked after my post; probably most of what I wrote was obvious, but I think needed, since something was already in the air. If you agree with me, guys, we are probably one of the most productive team in the overlord. So let's go on fixing the last few things pending with the map and the rules and start testing. Once the first scenario is finally ready for publishing, we can decide to change aspects of the material used. So, keep our eyes and steps to our road map, keep ourselves open to each other suggests and wishes (that's important), but be sure that nothing is definitive until the tests are complete. Do you agree? Edited November 12, 2017 by Xaltotun 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthadan Posted November 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 @Xaltotun I agree 100%! It's true that sometimes I may sound a bit bossy, I'm sorry about that. I think we are doing a great work as a team and our hard work is about to bear the first fruits with our first scenario. Of course anything can change during playtesting, nothing is set in stone at this stage. Let's make the best scenario we possibly can! Crom is looking at us from his Mountain and He is grimly smiling! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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